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are ghost real?
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghosts, Spirits, Poltergeists - three types of phenomenon with supposedly unique and partially overlapping characteristics.

Do they all 'find us" - this question to Alex Very Happy

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALEX LOCKWOOD wrote:
trueghosttales wrote:
When someone thinks they have seen a ghost it is probably most likely their imagination BUT there are ghosts and there ARE people who have seen them.


Um...Caspar. I'm puzzled. Do you think they exist? Or not? Or haven't you decided which? Rolling Eyes Interesting, haunted. If everyone who said they would going to ''kill someone" actually did, then there would be a lot my psychos walking around Exclamation As for ''finding a ghost", you don't. They "find" you... . Ghosts don't appear 'on command', despite what certain books/texts tell you.


I dont beleive they all 'find' us - I beleive some are residual hauntings and some are not even aware of us.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont beleive they all 'find' us - I beleive some are residual hauntings and some are not even aware of us.


I can understand and partly agree with that Cactus. I've asked on other forums 'What are the mechanics of residual hauntings'.

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mechanics?
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecactus wrote:
The mechanics?


How do residual Hauntings work?. What are the physics that embed the experience into localised surroundings?. What triggers the replay?.

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Location - a place where that spirit was a lot/liked a lot in life.

I dont think they are embedded into the surroundings; I think they come and go - eg: you could work in the whitehouse for 10 years and see Lincolns ghost only once
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecactus wrote:
The Location - a place where that spirit was a lot/liked a lot in life.

I dont think they are embedded into the surroundings; I think they come and go - eg: you could work in the whitehouse for 10 years and see Lincolns ghost only once


If they're not embedded into their surroundings what determines their appearance?. Everything needs energy from somewhere in order to exist and interact in even the most basic ways - where are the ghosts getting their power from?.

DB
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ALEX LOCKWOOD



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 238
Location: UNITED KINGDOM

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I dont think they are embedded into the surroundings; I think they come and go - eg: you could work in the whitehouse for 10 years and see Lincolns ghost only once."

I shall explain the 'mechanics', as I see them. And it's 'ca ne fait rien' to me whether you & DB [Evil or Very Mad] go with the idea or not Exclamation 'Morphic resonance' is how I think it works. We all leave some kind of 'psychic imprint' wherever we go. The more traumatic the experience, the stronger the 'resonance'.

Buildings have crystalline matrices in their raw materials [ie, in the brick or stone]. Like LCD [or a chip] in a calculator or watch, this 'stores data'. Or 'records' the information. All buildings have different 'resonant frequencies' [btw, planets and stars do as well]. And 'transmit' these.

The brain works like a 'transmitter'/'receiver', and picks up the 'signals'. These are then 'converted' into a 'visual' form, which manifests as a phantom. ghost, etc. (If you are on that 'wavelength', that is.) Historical hauntings operate like a recording, in that the same event is 'played' over and over, without variation, and in the same place every time. Simple, really
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all leave some kind of 'psychic imprint' wherever we go.

Possibly Alex but how do you know we do?. If we did then there would be billions upon trillions of imprints constantly left in the geology and man made fabric of the planet and I'd expect far, nay, many many more people to be picking up on them.

The more traumatic the experience, the stronger the 'resonance'.
If that's the case why aren't the concentration camps of Poland & Germany a psychic hotbed of activity?.

Buildings have crystalline matrices in their raw materials [ie, in the brick or stone]. Like LCD [or a chip] in a calculator or watch, this 'stores data'. Or 'records' the information. All buildings have different 'resonant frequencies' [btw, planets and stars do as well]. And 'transmit' these.

I agree partly Alex. But the various degrees of crystalline materials in stone (and to a far less degree in brick) do not work on the same basis as a Calculator, watch or LCD. The mechanics are as different as a Vinyl record is to a solid state flash drive.
'Frequencies' is a catch all phrase often cited by the woo to try to add some science to their hokey beliefs - it just doesn't cut the mustard with me unless you can back it up with a lot more credible science.

The brain works like a 'transmitter'/'receiver', and picks up the 'signals'. These are then 'converted' into a 'visual' form, which manifests as a phantom. ghost, etc. (If you are on that 'wavelength', that is.) Historical hauntings operate like a recording, in that the same event is 'played' over and over, without variation, and in the same place every time. Simple, really

A very plausible theory until you try to provide evidence for it. It's certainly one that I've subscribed to in the past but it falls down when it's taken apart bit by bit. If you want to explain it further using known science and the laws of physics as we currently understand them then by all means go ahead.

Good answer though. I can see less knowledgable and more woo people believing it without question, but because I've been there, believed in it and looked in depth at it's validity - I'm not buying it just yet.


DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly what Alex said; thats what I believe!

Joking Laughing

I dont believe the laws of physics apply to ghosts, nor do I claim to know conclusively the reason for residual hauntings, as alex does, and Im not sure if they should be studied with scientific method like you would study nucleus and atoms.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not sure if they should be studied with scientific method like you would study nucleus and atoms.

How do you propose to study them then? .

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They cant be studied scientifically IMO because science does not recognise ghosts as real (spirits)(because there is no indisputable proof etc) so there are two groups - believers and non believers/those who are unsure.

Believers dont need scientific proof on this issue.

Non-believers: no proof will ever be enough IMO. Im sure you have seen the picture of the hooded monk at an altar taken by a vicar, and proven not tampered with - I consider that proof, but I know you wouldn't.
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bitterbuck1
Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 3962
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cactus, give us a link to that picture if you don't mind.
The hooded monk.
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was taken by a vicar in the 1960s if I remember right - he just took a photo of the altar but got a surprise lol

http://0.tqn.com/d/paranormal/1/0/V/A/hooded_monk_lg.jpg
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They cant be studied scientifically IMO because science does not recognise ghosts as real (spirits)(because there is no indisputable proof etc) so there are two groups - believers and non believers/those who are unsure.

How can science prove they're a real phenomenon if they don't research them?. Science has been looking for an explanation for two hundred years but t's not found any scientific evidence for them as yet. Research is still going on in some scientific circles and proof for ghosts may be found within the on-going research of some other field of exploration.

Believers dont need scientific proof on this issue.

Just as believers don't need proof of god. If you are prepared to accept the existence of something on faith alone then good luck.

Non-believers: no proof will ever be enough IMO. Im sure you have seen the picture of the hooded monk at an altar taken by a vicar, and proven not tampered with - I consider that proof, but I know you wouldn't.

I think you mean cynics Cactus - different from sceptics. If you or anyone else provides scientifically verifiable proof then I'll join you in the believers camp.
I've seen that ghost monk pic many times and it's literally too good to be true so in all likelihood it's a convincing fake.

DB
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