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what would be "proof" to "you"
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Angelwings



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: what would be "proof" to "you" Reply with quote

what would be enough proof "to you" to become a believer in the paranormal ?

scientific proof or personal experience ?
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kiba_luv_faye24



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm... personal experience would be enough... I don't need proof to prove that it's there justa as long as I know it's there...
hmmm... you got that?
I don't think I did
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Solstice Moon



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 272
Location: Horsham, W Sussex

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me personally, proof was seeing something that couldn't be explained as anything else.

Proof for the masses, in my opinion, would have to take the form of science proving that not only could ghosts exist, but that they must
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little miss zombie



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Cornwall

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time when i have experienced something,paranormal, proof that it isnt just me seeing it, feeling it etc, is when someone not a part of the family confirms the same experiences at the same time. I cant help rationalising, but maybe this is my own safety switch that kicks in and stops me getting frightened witless by coming up with the most maddest explanations, madder than the experience sometimes,lol.
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4898
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yip that would be me too Laughing
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don think you can ever have enough proof for a hard core skeptic no matter what you have recorded , or they them selves may experience. Most people live with a belief that there world is black and white and ghosts and the paranormal in general threaten that "reality". Even if they witness something they will still likely deny it to others and rationalize it away to themselves.
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little miss zombie



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Cornwall

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get worried that i am imagining it, especially when it's one off occurences. Sometimes inside i know what i've seen, heard etc, but sometimes, especially with unpleasant things, i have to rationalize or i would be a petrified mess, :)

I am half and half. i accept ghosts etc are around us, but i also like to keep a logical head too. Hardened skeptics drive me mad, because they will come up with things to just poo-poo anything.

When you are living with ghosts etc, i think it is normal to rationalise, but at some point(s) i think there comes a point where you can't brush things aside when things are happening around you regularly, especially
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Paraffin



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 14
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What would be proof?"

Good question. I am a sceptic and not really looking for proof. I love ghost stories and ghost pictures and have experienced strange events. While these events could be taken as evidence of ghosts, they always have some other more mundane explanation. Dull as it may be, I tend to go with the mundane. If I saw an apparition walk through a wall, though, I'd have to give my scepticism second thoughts.
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4898
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing is believing Wink
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YB
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2167
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't need proof, I believe Mr. Green
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damaralenoire



Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 334
Location: South Wales UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing is believeing
But Believing is a journey

But just cos you are not seeing it, doesn't mean it is not happening
Science does not say the paranormal does NOT exist
Science says it does
Just because there is a scientific reason behond something, that can still prove ghosts, spirits or other activities are around us.
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flossy
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 4898
Location: UK tyne/wear (geordie land)

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i totally agree with you pam, but for some they dont or wont believe unless they see or expeiriense some thing for them selves Confused
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Paraffin



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 14
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this was a live-and-let-live forum. Clearly not.

Damara, it always amuses me when true believers turn to science for support when arguing with a sceptic, yet have no hesitation in rejecting science that disagrees with them. No science supports the existence of ghosts or spirits. Not Quantum Theory or anything else.

Flossy and YB, what criteria do you use for deciding what to believe and what to reject? There must be some method. If not it would just be random choice.
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YB
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2167
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal experience backed by proof. Here is one story:

My Brother in Laws wife had an old farm given to her. The house was in deplorable condition and was being remodeled. The wife and I were camping out there and staying in the garage across from the back of the house.

While touring the house I felt a "presence" in the kitchen area and and even stronger one in the hall off the kitchen. While in the garage relaxing I told the wife I felt we were being watched from the kitchen window.

At night I felt someone was walking around outside but no one was there.
The next day I left the wife and drove to the store. Upon returning she told me she saw a old man in the kitchen window that asked her what she was doing here.
She replied that we were just staying there camping.

Later we were visiting her brother and we relayed what happen to the sister in law.
Found out to our amazement that she had the same feelings that the place was haunted. Upon swapping details it was found that her uncle had died in the hall where I felt the strong presence.

She asked my wife to describe what the spirit looked like and when she did was told that it was the exact description of the uncle who had died there.

I can 'sense' them at times, the wife can see them at times in her minds eye. Guess I am "ghost blind"
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always amazes me how sceptics who tend to have zero first hand knowledge in the field like to tell serious researchers how to interpret there results. The truth of the matter is unless you experience something you just wont know.

Quote:

"While these events could be taken as evidence of ghosts, they always have some other more mundane explanation."



Really?
I was investigating a supposed haunting several months back and received on multiple instruments high EMF jumps in excess of 29 milligaus in direct response to questions being asked. This was not a constant reading, as I paused to ask questions the spike field returned to 0 or .1 the spikes came only after a question was asked. There were no phones on but just to be safe we turned them on and tried to get an identical reading, it was not even close. There are no cell towers near by as it is rural, there was no electrical apparatus in that area period. We captured both EVPs and the EMF spikes in that room. I would love to hear your explanation for what we captured and experienced because I have tried to rationalize it away and just can not.


Skepticism is a great thing, in fact it helps us rules out conventional explanations to what some may see as paranormal events. However being blinded by ones skepticism is just as bad IMO. Like I have said before, there is no amount of evidence that we could ever find that would quell hard core sceptics. We share our information not to be known or to break grounds on new theories in the paranormal, but to validate each others work and maybe find some answers. Here is the bottom line in all related phenomena and this is from decades of research and first hand investigations and talking to hundreds of people who "saw something" and just didn't want to ladled as crazy.

There is something going on, it is either in our brains ie we are defective in some way or other and having collective visions of near identical phenomena. Or there is an outside source that is there parallel to us. When you say you don't believe in quantum theory to prove anything that really says a lot about how much you have "seriously" looked into this subject before deciding everyone who investigates or sees something is crazy.

Scientists are just scratching the surface of what Quantum physics may be able to tell us about the universe and the multi verse. Your statement reminds me of a quote from an old book I have in my libraries from the 60s. "There are no other planets outside out solar system." Thanks to better equipments and continued research from dedicated individuals we have proven that assertion wrong as well. It's a big world and we are nothing in the grand scheme of it so there is no way we can decide absolutes when the subject is in shades of gray.

That's my 2 cents
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