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EMF Meters
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Angelwings



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: EMF Meters Reply with quote

any starters on this ?
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Mr T



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are great for doing initial EMF surveys, if you know how to use them and understand what you are measuring. Read the instructions. I am sick of watching groups waving meters around and getting wild readings when the piece of equipment they have is supposed to be left in one place to calibrate to the field it is in. Wave it around through several fields and yes you will get exciting noises but nothing else useful. Do not watch television programmes to see how to use equipment, unless you want a good laugh.

Remember there are man made electromagnetic fields such as found around wiring etc and natural fields such as those given off by rocks and fault lines etc. Make sure you know what your meter is reading.

I do not know of any hand held units (and my group do use a few) good enough to do proper research into EMF's at hauntings. My colleague developed the MADS system and we have been using it now for a feild for a few years. The experiments have resulted in some scientific papers being published. For some thoughts on EMF's check out:

http://mysteriousbritain.forumotion.com/investigating-the-paranormal-f8/what-is-a-ghost-t34.htm

and most importantly:

http://www.assap.org/newsite/htmlfiles/MADS%20haunted%20bed.html
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Angelwings



Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is always the possibility of a stray cell phone call causing false positives during your investigations, be aware that any equipment utilizing electromagnetic energy can cause falls readings. I personally use both a Tri-Field meter (can be tuned to certain frequency ranges). and another less accurate EMF such as the K-2 for validation.
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoken like a true expert the bad thing is there is no true expert in this field. I buy my equipment to conduct experiments not to impress anyone. The only person I need to impress is my wife and she is the one doing most of the equipment orders. If science held all the answers of the universe we would not be having this discusion.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well put julie20099. Spot on with your advice. EMF meters can't detect ghosts because we don't know what ghosts are made of or even if they even exist outside the human brain.

EMF meters sound scientific and make investigators look like they're scientific but those gadgets aren't going to detect ghosts they're going to detect electrical fields.

DB
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"EMF meters sound scientific and make investigators look like they're scientific but those gadgets aren't going to detect ghosts they're going to detect electrical fields. "

And "if" ghosts,etc can manipulate electrostatic fields as some claim, then an EMF meter should be able to be used to find, and track such anomalies? In a recent investigation we witnessed a transient EM field, measured on 3 separate devices at the same times. We used 2 MELs and one K2 and verified a moving EM field which was stationary then began to move about the room and at times seemed to try to get away from investigators by going into areas we could not reach. The field strength was fairly constant and all who were present witnessed the event. Was it a ghost? we have no idea, what we do know is that for the most part EM fields do not travel around or duck away from people. We also know that if we had not had the EMF meters we would never have collected this data for future use.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key word there mrx3010 is 'if' - if ghosts can manipulate electrostatic fields. We don't know what ghosts can or can't manipulate because we don't know either what ghosts are (if they are even a phenomenon external of ther brain) and we don't know the physics behind their abilities.

For example - how can a ghost speak if it doesn't have a voice box? but that's another story I guess.

I don't know the facts surrounding the readings you quote or the location but how can you rule out contamination of those readings from perfectly explainable sources?. I agree that to some extent the data is useful but without the ability to rule out all other possibilities it's not valid as evidence of the supernatural.

DB
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One second, you are assuming I have stated that what we experienced was "supernatural". First of all I would like to clarify this, IMO that's an out dated word. It implies that something is beyond nature, outside of the natural laws of physics, chemistry, and science in general. In reality we simply have no idea what we are recording, seeing, hearing, experiencing or how it is occurring but to me there is a real tangible explanation out there. We are just not going to find it unless we use every instrument and tactic that we can think of to gather data no matter how trivial or controversial it may seem at the times. We also can not assume that what people are experiencing is blanket hallucinations, misrepresentation of natural phenomena etc just because we don't think it warrants further explanation.

As for the incident I sited above, the only other phenomena I can remotely think of that would cause such odd behavior is ball lighting, however no one saw any lights, arcs, sparks, etc during this event. Natural or not, we simply have no idea what was witnessed that night, all we have is the data.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without wanting to seem confrontational - which I don't - I didn't assume that you stated that your experience was 'supernatural'. I merely echoed your reservation about the word 'if' and singled it out as you did because it is a very major 'if'.

I will however slightly disagree that Supernatural is an outdated word. It's still very much used in the media - in everything from TV, films, books, blogs and on-line forums such as this. I agree (if that was your meaning) that it is often misused to describe certain phenomena as it seems to be an all encompassing blanket word that has actually lost and loses meaning the more it's used - pretty much like 'Oh my god!' or OMG has.

I agree that whatever it is you are picking up on your EMF meter or digital thermometers, tape recorders or cameras when you investigate supposedly haunted locations has a real and tangible explanation. I also agree that it will eventually be shown (through the efforts of people such as yourself) to be explainable by the laws of physics, chemistry and more importantly neuroscience.

For what it's worth I respect what you are doing - ie going out in the field and investigating and trying to find some science based explanation for what people are experiencing. I've been there myself and speak from experience.

Referring back to the case you cited I can only repeat what I said and add by asking what tests and screening for contamination did you do beforehand? Ball lightening is very, very rare and thus unlikely to be a valid explanation for the readings you experienced.

You've not said where the location was so I can't do any research that would allow me to comment anymore than I already have.

You end by saying 'all we have is the data'. The data you have doesn't mean anything without comparative benchmarking.

I know I sound sceptical and that's because scepticism is the best methodology to employ when evaluating the validity of paranormal (not supernatural Very Happy ) phenomenon.

I respect what you are doing and you are (from your posts I've read) by far one of the most rational individuals I've seen on various forums that discuss the paranormal. (no disrespect meant to World of Ghosts I might add).

Having said that I don't hold myself up to be Mr Right. I'm definitely not and I certainly don't think my answers, comments and views are definitive and the final answer. They're my views based on my experience, research and sheer time spent alive on this planet...nothing more Laughing

DB
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mrx3010



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I agree (if that was your meaning) that it is often misused to describe certain phenomena as it seems to be an all encompassing blanket word that has actually lost and loses meaning the more it's used - pretty much like 'Oh my god!' or OMG has."


You got it, it is way over used especially in media. The whole world of the paranormal researcher has become a show of sorts. I can tell you one example, we got a call last year from an individual wanting us to do some investigations around there home. We asked when they would like us to come in and they said to come around Halloween they thought it would be "creepier". The amount of media surrounding the field that we have seen is a double edged sword. On the one had we see some good researchers trying to find explanations and the other we see fakes and hoaxers trying to drum up excitement. After all you get more ratings when a ghost knocks you down or something goes flying through the air. In reality it's a lot of hours walking around in dark areas calling out numbers to be written down or reviewing days of audio and video for one strange occurrence that might still have a good explanation. Bottom line I think is that no matter how much evidence we compile there will never be enough "proof" unless there is a repeatable experiment that can be documented by more than one group. What is interesting with some EVPs however in that we have recorded EVPs that seem to have the same tonal qualities that others have recorded, why or how? Well that's a whole new set of questions. Smile
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're quite right mrx3010. The waters of serious paranormal research have been muddied and littered with the paddlings and junk of the popular broadcast media.
Cases worthy of research have not come to light because of the experients fear of a media circus and chancers who are out to make a quick media buck or just get themselves a big number of hits on YouTube represent both ends of the scale.
Serious, professional research is a lot of time spent in cold dark locations gathering data that yields precious few tangible results. I know because I've done it long before it became a bandwagon that anyone could hitch a ride on.
For mainstream science to accept or even seriously consider phenomenon such as EVPs you'd need to record them in controlled conditions using double blind tests with a high degree of repeatability. IMO that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Your finishing comment about the consistent tonal qualities of EVPs is interesting and does indeed raise questions worthy of answers Shocked

DB
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Iain Lawrence



Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 419

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agrea, It is dreadfull how almost all sciences have free scope to do as they whish and say what they will, but para science is constantly being hammered. Luckly though I believe the tide is turning. People are not (generaly) as stupid as the media would have us think and are now asking real questions. People are turning to real investigators for answers and they don't get reall answers from idiots and glamour freaks. Its time to make the research of the paranormal pure to the core. No more investigations cluttered by 20 people causing media and documentaion polution. These are called events! Get rid of the silly equipment gimmics and inform people the right gear to be using. It its too cheap its crap ..its that simple.. Lets explain the correct process of investigation and stop glamorising it all. You don't find groups of people going out to measure chlorine levels in there local lake? this is a science..and it should be carried out as such. Its time to enpower people with the truth of it. and thats gonna be hard to do now that the media has created it own belief structure...good luck.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Iain Smile . The serious investigators are out there, people like Joe Nickell, Ben Radford, Chris French and Richard Wiseman among others.

DB
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KiloCharlie



Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know what a EMF detector is & how it works? When training new amateurs I use a torch bulb in a holder with a roughly measured length of stiff wire connected to each terminal, this produces a very good EMF meter for a specified wavelength, as the bulb lights up when encountering a transmission on that wavelength. The brighter the bulb the higher the field strength V/m.
There are two kinds of EMF & the causes of EMF within any environment are diverse, they can also be very irregular, so background level testing needs to be over very extended periods & constant, to exclude a once in a week/month cause, they may be totally expected.
I use to broadcast & one neighbour to one of our sites use to pick up noises on her microwave oven, but unless you had tested for that at any other time, there would have been nothing. At another site we came over on a flats tv antenna system, but only on one or two of the TV's.But we only broadcast once month for a couple of hours maximum & from a variety of sites.
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