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Turkey UFO Shows Alien Greys
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Turkey UFO Shows Alien Greys Reply with quote

Footage taken of a close up flying saucer was analysed by Istanbul University and close ups show 'viewing window' at the top of the craft - there are typical alien greys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUEjeYn5Obg&feature=youtu.be
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ufodigest.com/page/%E2%80%9C-objects-captured-film-kumburgaz-sightings-are-ufos%E2%80%9D
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus Cactus you've been trawling YouTube again. We've been here before and discussed the highly questionable authenticity of YouTube UFO footage.
What's different about this one?. The fact that the Turkish press allegedly covered the story?. I've lived in Turkey and some sections of the media will cover a story about a donkey breaking wind if they think it will sell newspapers. Ever heard of The Weekly World News?. If you haven't you'll be blown away by this:

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/26535/alien-spaceships-to-attack-earth-in-2011/

Have you actually checked any of the claims made on this YouTube vid?. Did you check any of the claims made on the Nasa TV clip of 'the best UFO ever' ?.

The Nasa TV clip of the UFO only features on YouTube and the few more gullible UFO sites that re-posted it. There's nothing in the regular media (apart from the Turkish gutter press) - I wonder why?. I'll bet it's not on NASA TV now - because it probably never was on NASA TV.

Both sets of footage (Nasa/Turkey UFO) show all the signs of being faked. For example the second link you posted contains this:

For TUBITAK National Observatory Report and details of the incident go to
http://www.siriusufo.org/tr/?fx=sayfa_ac&url=html/english/tubitak_kumburgaz.asp


Did you try to find that report Cactus to see if it really did support this claim?. I tried and, maybe it was me, but no such report exists and that link simply goes to a general Turkish UFO site with no obvious connection to any official observatory.

Here's a few sites for the Turkish Observatory...see if you can see any mention of this amazing sighting and their report.

http://tug.tug.tubitak.gov.tr/tug_summary.htm

http://www.tug.tubitak.gov.tr/tutulma/english/main.html

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to remember DB - UFOs are a no-go area for many mainline science institutions and the press, for whatever reason - if many of the cases i have come across which i lean towards believing are true - then there is indeed a mass coverup and information is being suppressed. I dont think anyone so far has managed to debunk this footage or prove that it is not authentic.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to remember DB - UFOs are a no-go area for many mainline science institutions and the press, for whatever reason

They're not 'no-go'. The mainstream press covers UFO stories but they tend to be sensational in nature and as a result many people don't take them seriously. The main reason why scientists - and I specifically mean - space scientists such as Astrophysicists don't take them seriously is because there's no evidence for them other than 'sightings', faked footage,photographs and mis-identification.
The UFO community isn't helped by the likes of Adamski, Meier and the many delusional mental cases that hang around the fringe peddling absurd nonsense about Venusians and Pleidians.

if many of the cases i have come across which i lean towards believing are true
From your posts Cactus, you believe these cases are true on the say so of the witness or on questionable, unverifiable footage not on actual hard, testable evidence.

then there is indeed a mass coverup and information is being suppressed.
Who's doing this and why?. Why would scientists not want to discover alien life and alien technology?.

I dont think anyone so far has managed to debunk this footage or prove that it is not authentic.

Logical fallacy again, we've been here before....

Science cannot disprove the paranormal – therefore, this failure is, by default, support for the existence of paranormal phenomena.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of a number of central principles of science. It reflects a variety of logical fallacies and mistakes of reason. These include:

argumentum ad ignorantiam;
a misunderstanding of the difference between the evidence of absence and the absence of evidence;
a misunderstanding of the principles of falsifiability and sufficiency;
a shifting of the burden of proof.
These, along with other contextual issues are discussed below.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam basically means the argument to ignorance. The underlying fallacy from the argument to ignorance is when it is argued that something must be true, purely and simply because it has not been proved to be false (or vice versa). Carroll (2004) suggests, this fallacy could also be called the “fallacy from lack of sufficient evidence to the contrary” (Carroll, 2004; pp115). The fallacy of the argument to ignorance is not based in any one individual in an argument being ignorant – it is thus not directed to the individual. The notion of ignorance relates to the form of the argument itself. In this case, to there being ‘no evidence’ and thus, we are ignorant of the potential truth. The crucial point to keep in mind here is that an inability to disprove a claim does not automatically mean that the claim being made is true. An individual might make the claim that he / she can run the 100 metres sprint in under seven seconds (which would be the fastest ever recorded). However, if the person refuses to be tested in a race, our inability to falsify the claim does not make the claim true by default. If this was the case, anybody making a claim like this would be eligible for an Olympic gold medal, without ever having to run a single race!

A similar fallacious argument to ignorance would be one that states “as nobody can prove God did not create the universe, it must therefore be true”. The lack of evidence means nothing either way. The fallacy also works in the other direction as well. For example, a statement like; “Of course apparitions do not exist, nobody has provided any proof that they are indeed real” is also an error in reasoning committing the same fallacy. In science, we can make the valid assumption that from the lack of evidence, something has not occurred. However, we cannot conclude with absolute certainty that it has not occurred.

One mistake related to the argument to ignorance is to falsely interpret the absence of evidence as being equal to that of there being evidence of absence. Clearly they are not equal. The crucial point is that although science may not be able to disprove a claim, this is not evidence in support of the claim. Science accepts claims, not just on the basis of the absence of evidence but mainly on the presence of confirming evidence (i.e., positive evidence). There must be positive empirical evidence for accepting any claim or argument as being true. The lack of any evidence itself is not direct support of an alternative paranormal theory. It is completely neutral on the matter. The absence of evidence for Creationism does not, on its own, provide support for the theory of Evolution. The theory of Evolution requires its own positive evidence to establish it as a truth. The confusion over the absence of evidence being the same as evidence of absence is also related to some misunderstandings over the notion of falsification in science.

The principal of falsifiability states that in order for any claim to be held as a scientific truth – it must be falsifiable. That is to say, we must be able to test it and falsify it. The rule of falsifiability is an assurance that if the claim being made is indeed false, then the evidence will show it is false; and if the claim is true, then the evidence will not disprove it. In the latter case we can accept the claim as a provisional account of ‘truth’ until such time as further evidence is produced which disproves it (thus, it is a provisional truth). Therefore, the rule of falsifiability makes the explicit commitment that the evidence must matter and has to matter in a well reasoned scientific argument. If we cannot test the claim being made then that claim is no more true, than it is false. The problem with pseudoscience is that many of their claims are not testable – yet this absence of evidence is often taken as direct support for the claim. As noted above, if the absence of disconfirming evidence were to be taken as proof for a claim, then it is conceivable that we could show anything to be true – even when it is totally false. In addition to this, Lett (1990) notes, this type of faulty reasoning is also related to the concept of ‘sufficiency’. That is to say, any evidence recruited in support of a claim must be sufficient to establish the truth of that claim, in the manner in which it was made. The absence of disconfirming evidence for a particular claim, is not sufficient on its own to establish the truth of that claim. This type of reasoning is also relevant to a related error, that of it being up to science to disprove the existence of the paranormal. The discussion above shows clearly why this type of reasoning is incorrect and not a viable criticism of science at all.

Finally, another error in reasoning underlying these types of arguments relates to the burden of proof. It is not the job of science to disprove such claims (any claims). Indeed, science maintains that this is logically impossible. The burden of proof always rests with those making the claims. In other words the claimant must furnish the claim with good quality evidence, reason and logic. If a scientist argues that all species evolve through a process of natural selection, then he / she needs to support that claim with positive evidence for that process. If a parapsychologist argues that the mind is separate from the brain and can survive bodily death, then he / she also needs to support that claim with positive evidence. It is unsound to argue that the absence of evidence alone, due to:

a failure of science disproving claims; and
shifting the burden of proof onto others, somehow supports the claim being made.
The burden of providing positive evidence lies with those making the claims. It's not for anyone to debunk this and prove it false - it's for those who claim it's an alien spacecraft to support their claim with proof.

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3183
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here is a video of Dr. Roger Leir (who filmed the footage which showed the greys) performing surgery to remove an alien implant:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/64388/DR__Roger_Leir__Alien__Implant_Removal_Footage/


and here is a Biography of Dr. Roger Leir:

Dr. Roger K. Leir, author of the Aliens and the Scalpel-First and Second Edition, “UFO Crash in Brazil”, “Casebook Alien Implants”, “Chopped Liver” and three other books published outside the United States, including “Implantes Alienegenas” published in Portuguese in Brazil, and “Ovnis and Implants” published in France by Le Mercure Dauphinois.

It has been said that Dr. Leir is one of the world’s most important leaders in physical evidence research involving the field of Ufology. He and his surgical team have performed fifteen surgeries on alleged alien abductees. This resulted in the removal of sixteen separate and distinct objects suspected of being alien implants. These objects have been scientifically investigated by some of the most prestigious laboratories in the world including Los Alamos National Labs, New Mexico Tech, Seal Laboratories, Southwest Labs, the University of Toronto, York University, and the University of California at San Diego. Their findings have been baffling and some comparisons have been made to Meteorite Samples. In addition some of the tests show metallurgical anomalies such as highly Magnetic Iron that is without crystalline form, combinations of crystalline materials mixed common metals, growth of biological tissue into or out of metallic substances, as well as isotopic ratios not of this world. Dr. Leir has also been involved in investigations of other areas of Ufology involving physical evidence. He has traveled to Brazil and performed exhaustive research into the Varginha, Brazil case. In 2003 Dr. Leir worked with one of the worlds leading geneticists and the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) on a DNA study pertaining to evidence collected in a famous California Alien Abduction Case. Dr. Leir was a recent participant (NOV. 2007) in an international press conference held at the National Press Club in Washington D.C. Evidence from thirteen Military officers, pertaining to their experiences with UFO’s was presented to a worldwide media.

Dr. Leir is a Podiatric Surgeon, who has been in private practice in Ventura County, California, for the past 43 years. Dr. Leir anticipates performing more surgeries in the future and is investigating the physiological and biological aspects of the Alien abduction phenomenon. He has recently formed a 501(C) 3 non-profit organization for this purpose called “A &S Research Inc.”

Dr. Leir holds academic degrees of Doctor of Podiatric Medicine, Bachelor of Science, and Associate in Arts.

Dr. Leir is Board Certified in the following boards:

The National College of Foot Surgeons
The American Board of Podiatric Sports Medicine
The American Board of Foot Surgery
The American Circulatory Society and the Society for Non-Invasive Vascular Technology.

Dr. Leir is an international speaker and has presented his material at conferences in the United Kingdom, Brazil, Turkey, Japan, Australia, France, Canada, Peru, Mexico, Italy, San Marino, totaling 42 countries in the past 7 years. Dr. Leir is one of the very few researchers in the field of Ufology to have been invited to present his findings at a meeting of The Society for Scientific Exploration in Paris, France.

He has also appeared on a wide variety of radio and television shows including, The Orlando Jones Show, The Bronx Bunny Show, KTLA News, Fox News, The Prime Time NBC Special “Confirmation”, “Beyond Bazaar”, “Coast to Coast” with Art Bell and George Noorey, “Dreamland” with Art Bell and Whitley Strieber, “The Bob and Zoh Hieronimus Shows”. He has recently been filmed for an appearance in Walt Disney’s new film, “Race to Witch Mountain” which is scheduled to screen in your local theater in 2009. Dr. Leir holds the distinction of being the only speaker invited to the Bay Area UFO Conference every year since the inception of this event. In addition he was an invited speaker to the European division of the Society for Scientific Exploration in Paris. This year Dr. Leir was the Master of Ceremonies at a new conference in Santa Maria, California—The Central Coast Science-UFO Symposium held August 16th and 17th 2008.

Over the past fifteen years Dr. Leir has pursued a quest for knowledge within this field with great intensity. As a result he serves as a medical consultant to the International Mutual UFO Network. He was also past State Section Director for Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties.

Dr. Leir is, at the present time, involved in the production of a major motion picture “Earths Original Sin”. He is one of the few people granted an interview with one of the Vatican’s most prestigious Monsignors (Monsignor Corrado Balducci) to gather material for his motion picture project.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Leir is a specialist in the treatment of the foot, ankle and lower leg not an astro biologist, physicist, astro biologist, aeronautical engineer or any other person qualified to comment with authority on space alien technology.

Would you let a car mechanic remove a blood clot on your brain Cactus?. Or more specifically would you allow Dr. Leir to remove a blood clot on your brain?.

I think his interest in the subject is admirable but his methodology and his claims are questionable IMO. I gather from his involvement in 'Earths original sin' and his connection to the Vatican he also believes in God Rolling Eyes

DB
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Agentscott



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 1042
Location: Essex

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one point to make...
Your always going on about we can trust our memories and peoples accounts are worth nothing because of all the flaws we are prone to.

Why is it then that the justice system operates as it does, the whole thing is based on accounts from people who are prone to flaws and they gather their evedence based on witnesses accounts. Why is it OK to judge and make desisions from witnesses in that scenario but not when it comes to reporting UFO's?

Dont they know about all these flaws?
This UFO sighting reminds me of the millenium falcon so I cant beleive it's not fake. The orb bit looks authentic though.

There is a huge cover up going on and if you say otherwise you cant have looked properly or are involved.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't make the rules when it comes to a Court of Law AgentScott.

IMO the Justice System is wrong when it places far too much emphasis on witness testimony. To give them their due they are moving away from that now.

DB
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Agentscott



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
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Location: Essex

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great point I made there, I was just trying to suggest one scenarion where it's OK to use witness accounts and call them evidence!
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eyewitness testimony is unreliable - period.

DB
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Agentscott



Joined: 08 Feb 2011
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Location: Essex

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that mean lots of criminals will be freed because the evidence is unrealiable?
I win this time DB, you can't explane that away!!!!!

Eye witnesses testimony is realiable to use.
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agentscott wrote:
Does that mean lots of criminals will be freed because the evidence is unrealiable?
I win this time DB, you can't explane that away!!!!!

Eye witnesses testimony is realiable to use.


LOL, nice reply AgentScott.

Criminals get convicted on more than eyewitness testimony. Forensics will yield far more damning evidence for a conviction. Increasingly DNA is being used to provide conclusive proof.

No win for you buddy boy.

DB
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thecactus



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eyewitness testimony can be used as proof sometimes - simple as
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D B Sweeney



Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecactus wrote:
Eyewitness testimony can be used as proof sometimes - simple as


It has been used in the past to convict but it is now generally acknowledged as being unreliable and forms only part of the defence or prosecution in a Court of Law. So this isn't going to help your anecdotes Cactus.

DB
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