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Helby1981
Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Forest Of Dean
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Helby. Looking at their website I see this listed in their equipment:
SPIRITUAL/PSYCHIC ITEMS
Ouija Boards (inc. our own handmade English Oak board), Marbles, French/Latin Bible, Period Music, Crystals, Phurbas, Salt, Trigger Objects, Protective Symbols & Talismans, Zener cards, Tarot Cards, Protective Skills.
Any serious investigation team that resorts to Ouija boards, Salt, Crystals and Protective Symbols are IMO approaching the subject from totally the wrong perspective.
What purpose on a supposedly serious, hopefully scientific, investigation does Salt serve?......anyone?
DB |
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Helby1981
Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Forest Of Dean
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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On a scientific point of view I agree they have no purpose.
As I have said I am new to all of this and therefor quite naive in the whole investigative field.
I know Tim is a firm believer in salt and its powers of protection tho. As mad as it may sound.
They don't push their beliefs onto anyone tho and on investigations the more technical equiptment is used and data put together to see what, if anything has been recorded/noted.
Um don't really know what else to say about this but any questions you throw at me I will try to answer as best as I can with my limited knowledge  |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Helby,
My reply was by no means intended as a criticism of you in any way and of not just Forest paranormal but of any group that uses the items mentioned to find the truth behind an alleged haunting. From my experience the vast majority of such groups make make the same errors when it comes to the way they investigate a given location. There are various reasons for this but the main one is that they've taken their template from shows such as Most Haunted and TAPS.
Anyhoo, enough of my whineing  . When are you next out on an investigation with the Forest group?.
DB |
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Helby1981
Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Forest Of Dean
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
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No I know its fine, i did not take it as criticism.
Adam has years of experience with ghost/spirit investigation his dad also used to do it too so its something he has learned and Tim has several years experience too. They started to be interested way before TAPS and most haunted. Although I can see where your coming from with your comment.
Not sure when the next investigation is! I think it may be January sometime now and it will be one of our local pubs that apparently has lots of activity.
Im sure i read in one of your posts somewhere that you used to do investigations regarding hauntings is that right?
Did you believe in ghosts/spirits? Did anything ever happen that you could never explain? |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I did used to investigate supposedly haunted houses and locations also way before Most Haunted etc back in the very early 80's.
Back then I did used to believe in ghosts and spirits. Things happened that I couldn't explain at the time due to my lack of knowledge and unquestioning belief.
They were scary, fun, emotional times. Thanks for your interest. I still visit places that have a certain reputation but my rational, sceptical mind no longer sees ghosts 
DB |
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Helby1981
Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Forest Of Dean
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thats interesting so to believe now would you have to see something? Or would that still not be proof enough for you?
Its good to try and explain things rationally because the mind can make up lots of weird and wonderful things.
I definatly know my mind runs away with itself and im often more scared that i will see something because its already planted itself in my mind.
Do you know why you turned rational and sceptical?
Sorry for all the questions just interested |
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thecactus
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3196
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I could nearly answer those questions for DB on DB's behalf  but I'll let him |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Helby1981 wrote: |
Do you know why you turned rational and sceptical?
Sorry for all the questions just interested |
@ Cactus.
I'm happy to answer any questions put to me Helby
My scepticism evolved over a number of years but was triggered by the suicide of a close friend the day after he, myself and two other friends had spent the night in an abandoned, archetypal (complete with gargoyles etc) haunted mansion that used to allegedly be a lunatic asylum. For some time afterwards we were convinced our time in the haunted house had affected our friend and all kinds of supernatural explanations saw the light of day - had he seen something so terrifying that he couldn't live with it?, had he suffered contagion and been 'followed' home by some malign entity? Was he possessed by demons?.
Only at the funeral a few weeks later did the truth come out. Our friend (a young man of just 17) who had recently moved to Manchester from a remote Scottish farmstead had secretly been suffering from what, many years later, would be commonly called depression. On reflection, he was always a quiet individual but very good company and different in that he was Scottish and brought a unique perspective to our group.
Just before our trips to the haunted mansion began his girlfriend had finished with him and the day he took his life (with a shotgun blast to his head) was the anniversary of his mum committing suicide herself.
Learning this made me re-evaluate our numerous times in that house, with cameras, tape recorders, talc and thermometers. It made me flip the coin and look at alternative explanations for what we experienced and I began to study the work of sceptics like Joe Nickell and read about human cognition, perception, memory and belief. This was obviously waaay before the internet and a long time before personal computers were common place so all my studying and research was carried out by saving up for books and virtually living in a big public library
DB |
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D B Sweeney
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2842
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Helby1981 wrote: | | so to believe now would you have to see something? Or would that still not be proof enough for you?: |
It would depend what I saw and the circumstances in which I saw it. After nearly 30 years of study I'm very much aware of how even sceptics can be fooled by their own senses - our vision (and particularly our vision in low light) is not particularly good (so why hunt ghosts in the dark?), nor is our hearing. We're also heavily influenced by our expectations, cultural conditioning and beliefs and while many people would swear on their life that they 'know what they saw' - being truthful does not always equal being accurate.
Because I became a sceptic I didn't stop having what could be described as paranormal experiences but with investigation and the application of a bit of common sense and rational thought - the more likely natural explanations both logically and evidentially
outweighed the supernatural.
IMO and from experience on forums and 'out in the field' there are many misconceptions about investigating and evaluating ghosts and spirits. Far too many people go out with their minds made up that the dead come back and can and frequently do interact with the living without adequate research or even a basic knowledge of cognitive psychology. If they read about the subject, they read books, articles and websites that confirm their beliefs and if they join forums to discuss the paranormal they get annoyed and often upset when they are challenged by sceptics.
Ghosts, spirits and the survival of the personality beyond physical death may one day be proven and acknowledged by science - on that day it will cease to be the paranormal and become the normal.
But we can only go off what we know now - what science says is known. However I accept that science holds it's knowledge provisionally and in future it may change it's views on the non physics of ghosts. Until then I remain sceptical but open to persuasion
Finally Helby, if you're genuinely interested in the subject, in investigations and proper scientific investigation I cannot recommend 'Scientific Paranormal Investigation' by Benjamin Radford enough. Anyone who spends their valuable time on ghost hunts or is serious about the paranormal should have this book on their shelves.
DB |
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Helby1981
Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Forest Of Dean
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that I can see why you would re evaluate things after that, its is so common for people to just say that things that happen are related to the paranormal but like you say look a bit harder and normally a scientifc explanation can be found
I suppose ghosts are something I have always believed in because my gran had so called ghost experiences and i never really thought to question it so its just been something i always thought was there even without seeing anything myself.
Its only now im really beginning to question it.
Will definatly have a read of that book though im always looking for different views on investigations and think the mor scientific approach would definatly help me out. Thanks |
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diparanormal
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Sheffield
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Please have a look on my website for ghost hunting events. www.diparanormal.com |
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Project;Paranormal
Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Sedbergh, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Quija boards are great, Wether its a paranormal entity or not the fact is on occasion ive witness a group gain answer to questions that only i knew and i wasnt on the board? Explain that...... haha, i'm not a skeptical so this helps my POV |
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thecactus
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 3196
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Project;Paranormal, I wouldn't mess with a ouji board, simply because you don't know who or what you are talking to. |
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bitterbuck1
Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 3963
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| thecactus wrote: | | Project;Paranormal, I wouldn't mess with a ouji board, simply because you don't know who or what you are talking to. |
I agree with Cactus on this.
I realize that these boards are sold in the toy section but I
for one will not mess around with one. |
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